Introduction & session overview Hi everyone, welcome back. Uh our next session is a panel discussion on mastering abandonment flows. How to recover lost sales across the customer journey. With us we have Matteas Mansion, customer success manager at Omnisen, supporting merchants in creating personalized revenue driven emails and SMS campaigns. We also have Ian Meisner, co-founder at Kestrel, focused on building tools and solutions for WordPress businesses and developers. Welcome guys. How you doing today? Hello Matt, thank you very much for the introduction. Yes, like hello everybody. Happy to be here and um yes, we’re gonna talk all about flows today, I believe. And u happy to also to be joined by Ian today. I’m pretty sure he’s going to know a lot of things that I probably don’t know and hopefully between the two of us, we can give you a lot of new new ideas and new inspiration for your for your marketing. Where most abandonment happens and why Well, we’re really excited to have you both here today. Ian, anything you want to say before I dive into our questions? No, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me and thanks for the Yeah, absolutely. All right, so uh first question we have for you, where in the customer journey do you see the highest abandonment rates and and why do you think they happen there? Perfect. So if everything is okay, I’ll start some slides so you know the audience can also have some look at the pointers and we can talk on top of that. That’d be great. Give a second here. I’ll be sharing the screen. But until that you can start speaking and I think you can start with those insights. Yeah, absolutely. I mean for me this really comes down to you know how you define abandonment. It’s like the customer journey does start before the cart, right? So ultimately, you know, when we talk about abandonment flows, we definitely are thinking primarily about the drop off that happens after products are added to the cart, but it’s really important to start thinking about the overall experience. You know, once someone lands on the site, are are you building their trust? Are you showing them the things that they need to to care, you know, about the cart that they are building on your store? So, you know, any moment of hesitation can really cause things to drop off. Um, so, you know, UX early on the product page, you know, helping build that trust as items get added, but also just making sure that you’re all sort of meeting and The biggest drop-off: checkout stage & hidden costs exceeding the expectations you set along the way. Now, demonstrating that trust throughout the journey can be really challenging, of course, um, but it really comes down to just really risking overcommunication. Um, yeah, go for it, though. To see it slides up. Perfect. So sayas like I agree a lot with with with what Ian is saying and I think like to be very specific uh mostly I’m gonna talk of course from the perspective of the email marketing company where I’m part of the so from omnison perspective and how do brands perform in this regard particularly of course I know that for most of of yall you’ll start seeing that it’s everything probably starts coming up together and you’re probably going to also understand that most of these flows are going uh be global uh regardless of the channel or or a specific uh you know tools that you’re using. But in our case uh from what we’ve noticed is that the most abandonment is happening at checkout for instance and uh you know there’s some reasons uh that people abandon here and there many of them. uh we we have run certain uh surveys and we have also analyzed the market since this this is one of our major cases and and also a very very high revenue uh tool for our customers on the passive way without having to use active campaigns and so on. And in many cases is because uh when people has reached the checkout stage when the intention or the purpose to to buy is already that close to to become a already a solid uh result is that you start you know showing new uh fees or some shipping fees that they probably weren’t aware before they were uh probably about to purchase the product. And in many cases that makes a big difference because we know that for low value items for low value products it might be that the whole fee that you will pay for shipments or extra you know Why forced account creation causes friction will come probably higher than the product itself you know so in many cases uh and this we’re talking about 70 to 75% of of of the people has abandoned the card at this stage. Yeah. So it’s it’s a very very very big number and also if you just want to around estimate from what we found is around 18 billion annually you know dollars are being you know just left there in the card because of these specific reasons. So uh then also the fourth uh account creation. This also depends on how you are managing your store, how you’re doing marketing. If you are really relying on customers to to provide that extra uh information to provide that extra access and give you an account and so on that will create friction that will create extra steps and it will probably create the that friction in the head of the customer avoiding them to just go through with the purchase taking a longer time checking competitors going and finding the product somewhere else. So this is small friction when you are in a in a high pace market it really really pays a toll and then you can also have uh slow delivery times maybe you know break expectations people were expecting to receive some goods so quickly they had that in mind and uh eventually you know they realize that it’s not going to come when they want and it just breaks down there. So uh in many cases of course uh what is here the the idea is to understand uh when are you uh informing your customers about every hidden fee. Are you leaving everything until the end? Maybe uh maybe you are adv informing them in advance once they have ab abandoned already the card. H just set it up and be like okay this is what’s going to happen once you once you have added a product to cart this is what’s going to happen this is what’s going to what’s going to come in your way and inform customers about that because when you have already a customer database and you are repeating your purchases and they’re coming back to you back to you they they must be aware of what you’re willing to offer. they must be aware of of uh of what is you know How expectations & delivery times break trust that you are requesting them to for them to finish a uh with a purchase. And I think if you really uh well just as a to answer the question in general is this is the place where we see the most abandonment here uh at least in the email marketing world and uh in many cases of course is also the most uh important uh flow that all marketers can have enabled just to have passive income. So in general these two things you know you put them together and think of the relevance of actually clarifying how things should be from the beginning would really help you s sort this step up. Maybe just a a little bit of layer of nuance to tie our answers together a bit is that it’s it’s not necessarily that the the checkout or the card is where the abandonment is triggered by but it is the most actionable area. you know, if haven’t done a lot of oper optimization yet, this is the area to start because everything else will be magnified by good results here. Right. Yeah. I I would say that that’s probably the number one reason I drop off anytime I’m trying to buy something is I wasn’t expecting that shipping fee. I’m like, you know what, that’s a little too high. Let me go look elsewhere, see if I can get that price down. Um so, um you know, followup question around that. So, do you approach card abandonment differently from checkout abandonment or do you treat them the same? So, yes, Ian, you can can go ahead then. Cart vs. checkout abandonment: why they’re different Yeah, I mean, for me, I do actually consider like building the cart to be very different from actually landing on the checkout page and making a decision. They’re sort of like you’re still at that consideration stage. You know, the experience of browsing around a store and like looking at all the things, clicking add to cart might be a signal of interest, but not necessarily of intent. So, I I look at optimizing, you know, like your shop archive pages and your single product pages as a separate activity, separate task. That being said, the checkout itself, uh, you know, if they’ve gotten to that point where they’re like entering an email address or, you know, typing in a credit card number and haven’t clicked place order yet, that is somebody who’s shown like meaningful intent to purchase. That’s somebody who’s really right at that point where if you lose them then it’s because you’ve broken some commitment either something you’ve already told them or something implied by the product or the UX or or whatever. I definitely agree 100% with what Yan said uh in both ways. The first one that that you know you breaking uh well once you’re in the checkout stage is the highest intent of purchase already. uh you you can understand that the reason why people abandon it is going to be from what we said previously, you know, some a slow u user experience. They probably didn’t really uh go ahead with it because it was too complicated for them. They didn’t understand where to put things. It was a little bit too overwhelming in general. But uh I 100% Building unique flows for every abandonment stage agree that that this should be treated and every single stage of abandonment in my in my opinion should be treated as a separate path. So every single stage wherever a customer is landing from the moment they enter your website when you’re giving them the welcome when you’re offering them something for them to sign up uh to to your newsletter or whatever when uh when they are abandoning certain products when they are viewing things around in your store uh wherever you can be targeting them and then you know sequentially the cart and checkout they could be the same in in a way. Yes. because the the content could be similar at some points and in many cases for many stores for many markets it will be a pretty similar experience for the user but in my in my experience is the best to separate them as much as possible. So as as Ian said uh the person that is you know adding products to cart they might just wanted to have it there because they are really browsing through a lot of things and in the end they might not even end up purchasing that product but replace it with something that they looked at later uh and so on. So so that’s the whole uh that gives you already the whole idea of what you must do in those stages. So if a person is just as it says here you’re in a cart uh sort of a window shopper looking around uh not really committed to purchase yet because in many cases and I guess it happens to all of us we are browsing we are adding products to cart and then probably we’ve never opened that website again in our lives. Yes. So it really it really could happen and it really happens. So to just uh know what you want to communicate to those people that are abandoning the cart. So maybe they didn’t they didn’t find what they were looking for. you’re going to probably suggest them something that is similar. Probably you’re going to suggest them something that you know uh other per people that were looking at the same thing purchased. Uh while the check out one is mostly you know trying to convince the person to take that last step trying to ask okay so what happened? What was it that that you know disrupted your flow that you didn’t finish your purchase? What what was it that you know interrupted the way things were going? And uh uh one thing that I think is very important here is uh a relative you know persistence uh when you’re communicating with this I have experienced through through time that uh many many brands many markets that are just you know having a single touch point whenever somebody abandons uh whatever stage they through the through the purchase the the single touch point is not going to really make a difference on the long term because just to put it in numbers If 40% of the audience that you sent certain reminder to uh you know was only 40% people that was you know reacting to it, opening it, clicking on it and just you know in the end converting from it. Uh there’s the other 60% that potentially could still be there especially at the checkout stage. So I’m pretty sure Ian will agree with this and and they they need that extra touch I would believe and I would advise anybody who is preparing these flows in any channel or any uh existing they’re working with to to approach them at least a couple times to approach them uh to to think of what you can offer in order to convince somebody that is not willing to to purchase at the first intent. If you have the possibility to offer something you know go ahead with it why not? Yeah, and I I agree fully, especially at the tear chat stage. I would also just throw in there that before, like during Timing strategy: first reminder vs. follow-ups the cart, you know, when they’re still building a cart, when they’re still adding to the cart, your goal at that point should still actually be about sort of either presenting them with content or other products that help them feel more closer to they they found the value they’re seeking. You know, you’re not actually getting to that point of trying to like close the sale, trying to get them to actually transact. You’re really just continuing to build trust at that stage, you know, present them with more opportunity. Yeah. But once you get them into the the checkout flow, multiple touch points. Absolutely. You know, if they got to the point where they started to to type out their personal information, you know, get get in touch and especially with larger carts especially, right? You know, take the time, invest the effort. Certainly that that certainly pulled me back into certain sites myself when I started that process. So So how soon after should you reach out after somebody has abandoned cart, right? What’s the balance between being helpful versus being pushy? Yeah. I I mean right off the top I think the very first notification should be within a couple of hours of the latest. It’s you know they’ve left. Get back top of mind as soon as possible. Uh now as far as that question of when does it feel more spammy or like overdoing it vary significantly across industry stores you know you know who your customer is and how they got there. So that is something that like I don’t think there is one right answer there is a lot of experimentation necessary for your individual store. I will say though on average three touch points across about a week you know so one within a couple of hours one within a day or two one about a week later is usually a safe starting point you know Matias I’m sure you have a lot more experience I think you said almost everything I wanted to say because it’s exactly this the same uh as I would uh suggest and uh and actually that’s based on on the research that has been done for the specific purpose yes So, uh, you don’t How many touchpoints are too many? want to be too quick to remind your customers for like that something must be done. You don’t want to be too quick to to call them to action. Uh, because then you’re most likely going to lose them. You’re going to be spammy without wanting to. So, so give them the time, you know, let them let them cook a little bit. Let them uh think we’re not of course during this time you may be thinking in your head they are looking at competitors. They are looking somewhere else. They are probably thinking where else they can they purchase it. Uh but yes, they might still have their doubts on them and they are also going to receive emails from them. Most likely they went to that stage too. But but with you, you can be certain that if they have reached uh already a checkout, they were pretty much convinced that they wanted to make this purchase with you. So you can take your time, let them make the decision, uh curate your content, make it, you know, as personal as as as unique as possible for that single customer. And then of course as Ian said in the previous and in this question you know follow up uh with with certain strategy behind. So let them then uh if they and I think here depending of the capabilities that the tools that you’re using have also understand what have they done with that first reminder that you send them have they actually reacted to it? Have they opened it? Have they clicked on it? Uh based on that am I going to you know uh even customize even further what the second one is going to be for those that opened and those that didn’t? Am I gonna see that the people that didn’t open, maybe they need an extra push? Maybe I’m gonna throw a discount there if I can. Maybe I’m gonna throw some extra extra value that I could offer over there. And then of course, as also said, a third one after a little bit uh in this case, I said not to not to let more than three days pass, but but yes, uh within a week to have those three touch points, I think is more than enough, too. And uh and just of course what one thing that I think we can both agree and everybody else was uh assume from common sense don’t do more than that. That’s that’s really unless you really think is necessary unless you see that the metrics of every single of the communications that you send the reminders are still very big then maybe follow up but be very conscious of that. Yeah. In my experience the first email is going to result in over half of the success of the total campaign. Right. like it’s the very first reminder is enough that it’ll bring them back. The card will be waiting for them. They’ll they’ll wrap that up. The second and third offers, it really is about that experimentation. And I like what you have on the slide here. You know, social proof, maybe a light incentive on that third attempt. And that’s what you should experiment with first. Like don’t start adding or removing a bunch of stuff. Don’t worry about timing as much until you found like the offer that makes each email as effective as it can be. Definitely test both, but I would start with finding the right offer. One thing I forgot to to, you know, to say also that I think Ian Ian said it and and I didn’t build on top of that is test. Don’t be afraid to test. No audience is the same. No market is the same. No industry is the same. So I can tell you one hour right now, but maybe for your customers is 30 minutes. Maybe for your customers is one day. Maybe you’re selling very high price items. Maybe for your customers going to be three, four days a week. So, so test both paths, see which one is performing better and stick to one. No need to to you know follow this uh the line. It’s it’s always better to experiment in time. No, that’s great. And and you know what I take away from that? Wait for that third email. Sounds like that’s when my discount code or free shipping might be might be coming in. So don’t pull that trigger immediately. So with that those Best recovery channels: email, SMS, push, retargeting follow-ups, so what channels do you do you recommend or have you seen be most effective for recovering that? Is it email or is it uh SMS, push notifications, targeting ads? Like what do you recommend? Yeah, I I have a very simple answer for this one. I’m sure you’ll have a lot more, Matias. Actually, I’ll just jump in here. Email’s cheap and there’s a million blog posts on the best way to do it. I I would recommend always start with email. Now, I do think SMS has a huge opportunity to be even effective for certain types of stores. I think there’s a little bit more risk of doing SMS wrong. I think unless you’re using a tool with good guard rails or you know you understand the best practices, you can mess that up a lot easier and upset people more than you help your store, right? So, I think that’s something to play safe. Retargeting is super effective as well. I know you have that on the list here. I kind of view that a little bit differently, but I think that that for big ticket items, getting people back, you know, if your average order size is big enough that you can actually meaningfully run retargeting ads, that’s great. But again, I think that’s even more niche than SMS. I would essentially move down this tier of email to SMS to retargeting ads. And then push notifications, I have never really experimented with, but you know, mobile first might be something there, right? I I again 100%. Oh yeah, go Matt. Oh no, sorry. I was just gonna see if you what you had to add. Sorry. So no, yes, like I agree 100% with Matt and and just one thing that I think could even settle down uh the comment that Matt said first a little bit more is that email has been there for so long and you know it still remains pretty much the same as it ever was and and it really shows the results haven’t changed. if something they have become better because the infrastructure is much greater is much bigger and of course the the accessibility of the population to to you know to the to the internet and to all these tools is much much greater than it was before. So so it hasn’t lost power. Maybe people uh in in some other fields and industries that are not marketing related may think that email is already an obsolute tool. Yes. That you’re just using for work purposes. But but actually when you start with that conscious mind of I’m a customer and I’m receiving a 100 emails a day from brands that I haven’t heard of already in a year then you can start thinking the magnitude of email itself and how big it is. Uh and as Ian said is Email is still king (and why SMS needs care) going to be always the cheapest of all of your uh potential kind of you know channels that you may use. And again I second what he said about SMS. I think SMS is still a very powerful tool but you have to be extremely strategic about it and you have really careful about it because unlike uh an email it’s harder to ignore I would say so you would definitely be like who is this guy texting me like the typical person reads every text they get the typical person does not read every email they get so there is that the value of being in their hand is definitely meaningful um now there’s two things and one is on the slide here the using channels together like Your SMS campaign needs to be aware of your email campaign. If anything, like you should like weave them together, have that be part of the steps. Also gets to the the, you know, segmentation of your audience. If you have like a membership program or a loyalty rewards program and you get people to opt into SMS via that and then also use it for things like cart recovery, then you often, you know, that it’s it’s more than just like an official like they checked the box to opt in. Have they volunteered to let you text them? Like do they really expect you as a brand to send them that type of communication? Uh and again that comes to that question of trust and building it early. But you know SMS gets a lot more interesting with like recurring customers and you know lifetime customer value more so than you know recovering a sale on an initial cart. Definitely. And I think it’s pretty much uh like uh also legally regarding GDPR and all this compliance you face much more risk uh making a mistake within within the SMS world than you would do with email and for instance push notification such an under you know estimated kind of channel because I think it really has a lot of value for what it represents you know it can be more massive it is less it it does cause no harm if you do it wrong in many cases people can just opt out of it very easily without causing any trouble to How to blend channels together for best impact your list, to your reputation, to anything. So, so I think and I also one thing Egan mentioned here and I think it’s very important combine them uh and in this case use them as the fallback options. If I have if I have a sequence of emails coming in, first email, second email, third email, and there’s still a percentage of the population that didn’t open any of them, then maybe I notched them with an SMS and and probably that’s when they’re going to react because as he said, most likely people are going to see it unlike they probably won’t see the email. They are ignoring it on purpose. Yes. Yeah. I think my wife would fall into that category with her 10,000 unread emails. That SMS push actually might get her to to take some actions. I think those those messages are getting lost in that inbox somewhere along the way. Um, so with that said, how do you personalize, you know, abandon recovery messages to increase that chance of a conversion, right? I love what you said about, right, the the balance of it, maybe the two emails before you get to the text. I think that makes a lot of Personalization vs. segmentation: where to invest effort sense. And so, where does that personalization come in? Yeah. Uh, well, right off the hop, I’m going to caution on personalization. I know this is sort of an aside to the question. The amount of room you have to experiment, you know, how successful your store already is should definitely like inform how much custom solutions you put in place for a personalized campaign. Like there’s a few things that are very obvious that I think that I would consider even for a relatively new or smaller store. Like if you have a very expensive product and mo like if you say you sell like fireplaces and fireplace accessories, maybe you have a different campaign for a fireplace than all the stuff that goes around it basically, right? So you know if your average order value has these wings, maybe don’t wait for experimentation. Um, but personalization around, you know, different campaigns for people who already know your brand well versus people who are relatively new is another area that I think is pretty straightforward and can be done for for just about anybody. But broadly speaking, something like a cart email, like a cart recovery campaign, if you start with like a three email template and just send the same thing to everybody, you’re getting 80% of the results. So personalization comes with optimization. you know, you’ve already got the basics in place and then you want to start getting clever about it to get from 80% to 100. But yeah, please add Matias. I think I think everything is is there already and and I would agree in the way that you know you almost all the job is done without personalization but with personalization you reach that little percentage of people that wasn’t reacting to that you know so it’s like uh you add on top of it is like the extra value is your added value for that their added value I would say you know so you are giving that extra effort that extra you know time on personalizing emails on setting things up to be more more precise more on point for them to also give that extra attention that they probably weren’t given before. And uh and I what I would say here a little bit is uh what what Ian touched in the previous question I think is very important rather than personalization in a way to segment things to know who you send to. In many cases can make I think in my experience it will make much more difference than personalization itself. So if you’re more responsible and more aware of who you’re sending to, when are you sending them what and what’s the content exactly that you’re sending to in a specific segment that you have created. Uh that already I think makes all the difference regardless of if you’re personalizing those communications to the name and and specific details of the user that is reading it. because I think it just makes much more difference because you are acting on their intent to purchase rather on their sentimental attachment to whatever you have sent them which I think is more thinking long term. Yes, if you have customer that is already in Redirect strategy: where should recovery links land? your list for a long time and you know that they are still opening your communication, still engaging with you, probably purchasing every once in a while, then become personal with them, become close with them, create that clo close relationship with them, an awareness of your brand, uh some kind of care for your brand too, and that that that the name of your brand is in their head all the time. But if you are rotating your list, if you are big on on ads and you’re bringing new leads all the time to your store, uh better I think uh put the efforts in segmentation and understand who is coming when, what do they want to receive and of course what are you going to do with that information that they’re giving you and it’s updating on a daily basis. Yeah. And one thing to tie that back to personalization I would say is rather than creating like 70 different custom paths through your website or a bunch of different flows just early on think about the entire customer journey like who are the people that should land here? How do you make the entire like experience perfect for the imagined you know the hero customer? Who’s the exact person that this should be personalized for? and then just build for that person, you know, from the from the landing page all the way through to the offer to the cart, whatever. And, you know, personalize it for the imagined ideal person, basically. So, so I want to I want to bring up a question from the audience that I think ties in well to this topic. So, what URL are you using for cart and checkout abandonment? Are you always sending them to the checkout page or are you redirecting them to the cart page or even the homepage? What approach do you do you take in these areas? Well, in in our product, Checkout WC, we drop them just right back on the checkout page with the cart rebuilt for them. So, it’s kind of in exactly the state that ideally it’s in the exact state they left it in. Now, you know, whether they’re or not becomes the question, but basically, you want to bring them as close to to the finished transaction as possible, right? I think I think here is also coming back to I think the first or second question that we had uh just uh how many like how particularly specialized are you with each workflow have you separated the stage of card abandonment and check out abandonment because then definitely uh you would change the URLs for each of them maybe the person that abandoned the cart as we said still looking for something we’re going to bring them back to the cart to tell them you know take the extra step look at these other items add something else you know maybe we don’t even bring them to the cart just bring them to the store, the card will be saved there and they can bring some other items on top of it. But the people that is already on the checkout, we don’t want to push them into doing something else because we know that the purchase is going to is closer than the other audience. So maybe we want to redirect them already to a uh to a fully completed cart or to the start of the checkout. And I think uh I think there is no uh definite answer for this one. If you split those automations, if you split those flows and you actually manage to touch each uh step of the customer as long as they are taking them and next to them, I believe you can Beyond discounts: creative incentives that convert really split both of them to be completely different endings and the URLs to be completely separate in both of them too. Oh, that’s that’s great advice. I appreciate that. So, you know, I already shared earlier, right? I love a good discount that’s going to bring me back into my cart, but what are some other strategies that work just as well? Yeah, this is a great question actually and right off the hop I do want to lead with do not train your customers to expect a discount. It’s one of the worst things you can do. Uh I’m sure you have stores like you know even like retail stores you go to where on the real price and you just know it walking in. That is the worst thing you can do to your store. like literally as soon as your customer base believes the discount was always available that that you just have to do that from now on basically. So be very cautious with counts as a whole. Now to Matias’s earlier earlier slide there um you know right off the top abandoning carts showing social proof you know things that other people like you enjoyed this product in these ways. uh if you can get like user generated content mixed in like not just like you know if you have like an Instagram you know campaign where people are using the product obviously it depends on your industry but you can get permission to use those things and you know the the social proof and the trust is what matters most but now if you want to offer something that feels tangible though like if you want to give them something for signing up right now you can make other commitments other than discounts as well right so well one thing is scarcity if you have like low talk. Make sure it’s actually true. But show them. Show them, you know, there’s two left by now, or else it might be gone forever. That’ll work on me. I don’t know about you, but like that will always I don’t even know if I want something. You tell me it’s going away forever, I will buy it. It’s just 100% of the time. But even like simple things, especially for smaller stores, like if you buy from this email, I will personally go ship it out today. You know, just make a commitment of some kind and people love that. Just follow through on those little weird commitments. Make sure that they’re real. Bring the customer back again. Right. I I have I have almost no comments to add to that. I think is a very good answer. But but I guess like and I want to second also in what he said about don’t don’t get your customers used to discounts. I think you have to decide if you’re going to become that story because as you said once you have made a decision you’re going to probably get that expectation from them too. So if you have decided that then be strategic about it you know there’s uh within the tools that you’re using for for the marketing itself understand who deserves a discount and who doesn’t uh you know split uh your your flows according to the amount of money that they are willing to spend on you because is is a higher ROI they are spending a lot and I give them a little discount then it’s not a big hit for me it’s actually it’s Avoiding discount dependency & testing smarter offers actually sort of a extra motivation for them to actually convert so so I think This the answer here is if if you haven’t found another way to get that response from customers besides discount be strategic about it. Don’t be giving it away. Don’t be making it as as Matt said before. Uh we know that it’s coming in the third email. So we’re going to wait until the third email. uh it’s it’s kind of a created this psychology in the customer of understanding that things are coming their way eventually because you have made that so and uh and yes as you said too it’s uh this value proposition I think can come in many other ways it depends how I think you have to analyze also how often is the customer going to come back and purchase from you again how how long you want to keep them with you how how willing are you to sacrifice other things too And also what what things can you give away that are not going to harm you in any way? Maybe you have some overstocked tiny value item that you can add to the to the basket in case they purchase in that same day. You know, could be anything. Could be a sticker. I people could actually fall for it. So for I do want to throw in there the loyalty perks and early access. I’m a huge fan of that sort of thing. And I would actually even double down on that further and say that the offer doesn’t actually have to be less than what was in their cart. Like you can actually present them with an offer that’s bigger than like it more expensive than what they left with. And sometimes that will actually convert better. It’s just are you able to identify the value? Is it the right customer segment for the right value you’re offering? And if you say have like a core product set that most people like that buy and their cart contained items adjacent to that, you can actually like you know send them a reminder that hey you might have missed that this is here and that might actually help convert better as well. So it’s not always about saving more or giving them less. You could flat out say like you know this costs double but it might be what you really wanted and some stores will find success with that. Picking the right tools (Omnisend, CheckoutWC, etc.) Agree 100%. Then I and I would name it there just uh with the best intentions of the sentence but gaslight the customer a little bit. Yeah, just the best way to approach it then. Yeah, I’m I’m not going to lie. I’m definitely falling for that uh get a free sticker if you order now, right? I mean it’s a sticker, but I’m a getting something for free. It’s better than nothing, right? And that kind of pulls that pulls me in again or at least pies my interest on that. I’m going to click I’m going to go in and next thing I know I’m down the rabbit hole. It’s only for the next five customers. Yeah. Um so so next question I have so what role do like tools and uh like automation platform CRM or analytics dashboards play in building these effective abandonment flows? Yeah, I actually I do have a couple of thoughts on this question. I do I want to I’m going to give Matias more space for this one though because I will say you definitely need something but I do think that the tooling isn’t the most important thing here. It is the time invested in experimentation and doing the work to try what’s best. And like Omnisense’s a great tool, you know, our tool check out WC has some of the things you need to to do these experiments as well. Mailchimp, Claio, Groundhog’s a cool tool. All of it works. It’s what’s you know what what tool feels right for you. What what support experience is going to you know what company makes you feel like they’ve got your best interest at heart, etc. Uh they are they all do good work though but yeah jump in Matias. So yes here I think I think for for both of us just uh a matter of self-promotion a little bit here but but but yes I mean the tools are there as you said and and and it happens because because you know when we’re working here and you start touching uh ground with a lot of uh brands that have worked with other tools before it doesn’t really change. There are things that are more difficult. There are things there are things you win, there are things you lose. Yes. So Strategy before platform: why planning matters more than tools things are probably more difficult elsewhere to to set up and you don’t have the time to do it. So you need something that is quicker that is simpler. H some things are are let’s say in in Xplatform are set up in a in a way that you are not feeling comfortable with in in Y platform is a little bit different. So it’s as as Yan said, you you find a way to feel more comfortable, but the strategy has to be there because you’re the one setting things up. And I think uh you can you can test these tools and be like okay I’m going to create an account in each of them and be this and this and this and this and that and and then come with your conclusions and say which is the plus and minus for each of them. Uh but basically it comes up to what was the strategy that you set before you were actually picking the the because one thing you can come is with a blank blank state and blank page to the to the page itself and to be like okay I’m going to create an account here and I’m going to start selling from zero and I have never done it before. I didn’t have strategy have a plan and then you’re going to be reliant of what the platform can offer to you. So it’s like okay so this platform is suggesting me to do this I’m going to do it. this platform suggests me to do this I’m going to do it and then you are completely uh dependent on what you are being suggested either by AI either by the you know recommendations that are personalized there or by even the human touch that somebody can give you from that place but I would I would really advise there to come with a plan understand what are my needs my necessities what is exactly the things that I want to achieve how do I want to achieve it and and again as Ian said what is the extra value that this company is giving to I’m going to not only consider the tool itself, but the support they’re giving me, the the information I can find about them online and all the things that would make me self-sufficient and in general uh the tools are there. I would really I would really encourage people to to go out and investigate to invest time in understanding what their needs are mostly and then I’m pretty sure the tool will come very quickly once you type that prompt into Chajipt and say like I need to do this which is the best tool. It’s going to give you five options there and tell you, hey, this is probably the best way for you to go. So, so yes, the strategy and I don’t want it to sound like just a non-committal answer, but ultimately like some of them like you won’t vibe with some of the tools. You know, some of them like feel clunky even though they’re great for other people. They’re all they’re all different. They all do a lot of the same things as you even see with Matias and I with some of these earlier answers. We’re saying basically the same strategies. We’re probably executing on them fairly differently. just the best practices are are there regardless of what tool you use. I do to tie it to the original question one time though, the analytics dashboards, make sure you like what they show you there. You know, make sure those feel useful because the measures that you’re presented with are going to guide your experimentation more than anything else. And that getting that wrong could do a lot of damage in the long run. So and one extra advice there just now that you mentioned that uh be sure that you’re aware of what they are planning forward because if you know with the with the very fastm moving tech world Final thoughts on experimentation & analytics nowadays uh one platform might be very useful today but tomorrow another one that is 10 times uh let’s say more more economical or just in in general that has never been in the market before and now it’s just there and it’s something even that it could be for free use and you can just go on there and get the same results as before. So be aware of what’s the value that is coming uh along the line. What is the road map of that company? How how committed are they to make those advancements that advancements that you are requiring that you are you know pushing for that you really look into into having and understand how much they are listening to you and how committed they are to implementing those things. Gentlemen, this is this has been fantastic. We just have time for one more question, right? And and this is pretty easy one. So, so what are your thoughts about uh Prepathon and your experience as a guest speaker? So, go. No, sure. Yeah. I mean, it’s fun. Uh this is it’s uh I appreciate the opportunity to to, you know, jump in and uh I made a few notes, just been talking a bit. It’s been a lot of fun and I’ve checked out some of the other sessions and I it’s a good time. Thank you. Same same for my aunt. It’s very uh good to you know to be out there to know that we can reach uh more more of the community here and understand that that we are there for people too for any needs and just uh you know put ourselves out there I think and get to know you guys too you know Ian Matt and all the guys in backstage too that that we really really are appreciating this and having fun with it too. Well, well, thank you. I I really appreciate it. I didn’t expect to to walk away uh learning so much. So, thank you both for your time. Hopefully, the audience found this session as helpful as I did. Um, with that said, next up uh we have the ECOM Showdown, the ultimate quiz battle hosted by Moise. So, stick around. He’ll be on in a couple minutes. Thank you so much.