hi everyone welcome very excited to be here today um I have a wonderful session um kicking off harmonizing Ai and SEO um for those of you who don’t know me my name is Shelley figan I am the director of SEO here at digital ocean um obviously sibling company to cloudway so very excited to be here today we have a wonderful full panel um I’m hoping we’ll go ahead and bring our first panelist up on the stage and I would like to welcome um dragos perfect perfect pronunciation Shel thank you very much awesome thank you I would love for you to give a little bit of background about you um you’re the global head of Business Development and pronounce the company’s name for me it’s Twila comes from the website intelligence platform by the way love it please tell us a little bit about you and twilat perfect so my background is emphasized more on the marketing and the sales uh elements uh at the moment since now for three years now I’m I joined the Twila guys the Twila team the website intelligence platform as I as I mentioned and we’re covering uh the analytics the website analytics side uh of things but in a more complex way which I’ll which I’ll dive deeper into maybe into our conversation uh but more most importantly in a privacy by Design manner yeah and at the moment we have more than 2.5 million installations worldwide growing rapidly so I’m glad to meet every one of you on stage very glad to have you here and excited to meet you as well well thank you for joining us um I want to bring up our next panelist we have cor welcome to the stage Hi how are you thank you for joining us today um I would love to hear a little bit I know you’re the founder um a holistic SEO a digital marketing consultancy and agency but I want to little bit about your background um I am curious because I read a little bit about your background it sounds fascinating please take it away thank you so my background is actually too long to explain in a few seconds but I started as Year from the casino Market I was a PBM manager then I lost 3,000 websites in the August update August 1st 2018 then I started to focus on the whet industries by starting to read the Google patents mainly and I need to mention one more time dear bill slav here for helping me even if he’s not among us anymore and then I was able to find some new methods for the search engine optimization and I gathered them with a new name which is topical Authority and it started to become a kinds of mainam uh methodology and the concept in the industry after like 134 different websites are being published by giving their names then our agency has been scaled then we turned our agency a kinds of community and academic and today we are we have like over 35,000 members across different type of platforms and around 2,000 of them are private members which means paying members incredibly impressive a community Builder I love it thank you for joining us here um so we have one more panelist to bring up on the stage we have Ben Clow hello Char welcome how are you very good it’s really great to have you here thank you About Marketgo for joining us can you give us a little bit of background on you and your the company that you work for I’m actually fascinated um Market goo um founder tell us a little bit about you and Market go yeah I think there is um I’m very glad about being here with the with the cloudways team because hosting has been my my birth my since I started a hosting company in Spain long time ago then I I DEC decided to to cash out and start helping SBS more in the in the online marketing space and finally I go back you know like uh connecting the dots I went back to to serving CEO so what we do today well since two year 12 years ago um Market is a is a is a company that is providing do it yourself SEO Solutions or tools for snbs and pretty much we partner with hosting companies that do they do white label our solution so we are a a boost company from Spain we are serving um roughly half a million smbs through our SEO tool through different 30 different uh Partners hosting Partners worldwide and I’m here very glad to to participate with the SMB focus in mind thank you so much for joining that is fascinating um anything that enables smbs to like take control in do better SEO improve their websites performance I am all for it so very excited to have you here today um I would love to kick us off um so we’re talking about harmonizing AI with SEO um strategies in today’s modern kind of search environment that we are in um kicking off first question would be so how can SEO professionals effectively communicate the value of their work in this era um especially where AI is How to communicate the value of SEO perceived as potentially replacing traditional search who wants to take it away I can okay thank you so the artificial intelligence relies on a bit a different form of search when it is compared to the traditional search engines so when you look at the AI search most of the time the queries will be actually very much more complex for instance every year especially in Google the average query length actually goes higher and higher today for instance we have more queries between two and the four and after the AI integration probably the average query length will be very much higher than just today and because of this situation the search engines especially Google in this case they will need to start to change their information retrial systems slightly for instance if you search for something like what is the best cat cat food for a cat who is let’s say which is older than 10 years old and just fold and just let’s say had XYZ sicknesses and also we can add a few allergies there too you can’t ask such a question to the Google or Microsoft pink in this case they will just choose two or three words from your query and they will tell you that here are the results just click one of them and find the Rest by yourself the advantage of the AI search is that they are able to parse a very long complex query to the different pieces and they don’t lose the context which is an important Improvement and they’re able to create different documents then they are able to choose the most relevant sections of these documents retrieve it aent it and then they start to bind all these different sections by reinterpreting them so this is actually a very good let’s say intelligence tool for our futures but it also creates different type of issues for instance when I saw sech for what is the best debt consolidation solution for veterans you can get some of the let’s say results but if I ask a question like what is De consolidation for a farmer who is older than 40 years old and also an old veteran so some banks actually literally might have two different advantages or two different occupations and let’s say we have 3,000 other occupations let’s a music teacher or artist or engineers then most of the websites don’t have content for most of these sections most websites they won’t be able to open a new page for every occupation and they shouldn’t open as well but in AI search that specific type of search model has to answer the exact query or as an alternative they will use semantic closeness let’s say we don’t have any info for Teacher then they will choose the second closest one maybe Mentor maybe coach or maybe something like that they will semantically replace that concept with another one and and then they will retrieve some other documents like that so I believe in the future we will be having a kinds of transition era slowly and gradually and I need to also mention the Met Cuts here because 10 years or not 10 actually 14 years ago he said that we will be searching from our brains and he was actually guessing that it will be happening before 2019 still I believe it didn’t happen that much but I don’t know maybe in the future it will be happening and maybe the SEO will be done directly for our neurons in the future and I will enjoy that academic side but with that side for everyone here I’m I would like to also tell that SEO is save it will just change and we will just adapt and continue thank you I would just uh maybe also add and before I’m I’m going forward I’ll just underline the fact that okay I’m I’ll my inputs will be from a perspective of website stats and analytics uh combined with a privacy point of view basically a key point to mention is that the new EU AI act mandates that all the data fed into the AI system must be gdpr compliant this is one aspect of things then I I’m thinking that SEO professionals should emphasize that while AI enhances efficiency it cannot fully replace in my humble point of view human touch in understanding uh the context user intent and uh ethical considerations like privacy for now ai driven SEO often relies on mive Dat massive data sets but as we uh move forward privacy first approaches such as uh cookless tracking for instance uh through this SEO professionals can de demonstrate that value of strategies that balance that balance basically between privacy with data driven insight and this means uh that they can provide valuable compliant user insights that maintain Trust on one hand and enhance search visibility ra rather than simply focusing on data quantity and communicating this uh unique value proposition where privacy and precision uh meet uh the highlights seo’s evolving role in creating ethical user first uh search experiences definitely a lot of considerations there thank you um anything to add further I have wonderful questions here and I want to make sure we’re keeping time um I want to go ahead and point out feel free if you are attending to add questions as well in the chat um there’s also a QA and poll section here um we will kind of bring some of these up but but feel free to put your questions in the chat and if we can we will try to Circle back and What role does human expertise play answer some at the end um I want to kick in um and ask here um so what role do you think human expertise plays in interpreting and acting on AI generated SEO insights just to kind of circle back to something you point out pointed out dragos yeah well think that um was pointed out um the the missing part uh or at least the human expertise could could be applied to to all of these insights is coming more from what the AI is not going to be as as good as doing as content intent or creativity or even I will say another kind of um um going out of the the the experiments of the vi path I think that will be the the most um the biggest play they the this human experti can play in the AI very true um so what would you think are some key considerations when you Key considerations would balance AI assisted content creation um especially to maintain brand voice and authenticity maybe I can start with this one but I couldn’t hear the question exactly could you repeat for me I sure AI assisted content creation can um we have let me see here um as far as the key considerations when you’re balancing out AI um assisted I’m going to say AI assisted content creation I will emphasis on the assisted um with maintaining your brand voice especially authenticity okay so in in my methodology most of the time I have a few Concepts especially when it comes to the relevance configuration and during the SEO Master Sumit 2023 I have given an example from the stage so I will tell two sentences from the point of search engine or any information retrial system the first sentence will be something like the financial Independence Consultants will help families achieve their Financial Freedom or we will tell families consult to the financial Independence Consultants to achieve the Financial Freedom in both sentences actually we basically say the same thing but when you actually put these two sentences to do any kinds of information retrieval system you will realize that they have different type of focuses in terms of the relevance because order of the entities in the sentences they are different and usually training human authors is not that easy for understanding the content like a machine actually does because vers represent mathematical computational like say cods or coordinates for when it comes to the natural language processing systems in this case I am trying to actually create some GPT agents to help my authors to be able to use the AI and NLP systems to par the document as a search engine actually will be doing usually I call this process like micro semantics because we do micro micro changes like changing the order of the entities or matching the modality in the sentence to the modality in the question if there is a can question the answer should be can for instance the Steven the Baker from Google he is the brain behind the Google featur Snippets directly and he directly states that four grams actually increase the satisfaction for users the four grams means if there are four vers in the question that speciic four vers should be used also in the nwere and most of the time I am trying to implement these algorithmic rules in my content structur as much as possible and AI is just helping me to actually replicate it for millions of sentences across thousands of documents and if you’re able to increase your relevance just with a small percentage per sentence and in your website let’s say you have three million sentence that small difference actually will be multiplied and then it will be a macro difference a difference that your competitor won’t be able to analyze or won’t be able to imitate and when it comes to the brand voice most of the time I am trying to actually put let’s say branded opinion sections in the document in a different place place than factual content usually the facts opinions or perspectives or expertise required experience related text spun they are placed slightly into a different section in the document so that the search engine actually can directly parse them and retrieve them with different type of systems and it’s also easier for users rather than reading one fact one opinion one fact and one opinion if you’re able to First they actually more productive for I think we we got oh I was it was me but maybe I can build Privacy and AI maybe I can build on what he mentioned with uh bringing to the table another perspective from the analytic side of things combined with the Privacy aspect because basically whenever you’re trying to generate content in a SEO format you’re trying most of the times or a lot of the times to look at what actually works at the moment first of all AI can Surface Trends patterns and opportunities at scale but it lacks the ability to understand nuances such as brand Voice or ethical considerations or cultural sensitivity and then secondly and massively important you have to make sure first of all that you’re collecting the impact of your current SEO or collecting 100% of the user insight and data yes because in many many cases we lose large portions of visitor information because of the cookie heavy tracking I would start off quickly by uh by adopting a cookus privacy first solution in order to max out the Data Tracking capabilities yes this is a privacy Paradox in a way because you are asking me so you’re using privacy sensitive Solutions but you’re capturing more data I mean in short yes because all the personal side of data is being anonymized as tracking is being done at the session level in this context this is a big Trend uh out there there as cookies are implicitly blocked by the way more and more out there see for instance the Safari browser case to give you a quick uh the quick example to go even a bit further I will bring into discussion even consent tracking because it is starting to be a really hot trending subject out there and can be easily done with the right tool set by the way so first of all just to quickly uh place the conclusion there first of all uh measure 100% of what you have out there in terms of content and based on that you can also uh reiterate I honestly have seen so much Conclusion data loss when we rolled out cookie consent globally so it is a pain that is very felt um especially with us and and our teams are I think we’re extra sensitive towards making sure we respect privacy and so I think we’ve been more aggressive than most companies but at a default of losing um a lot of valuable data so I totally get that coray thank you for coming back in um I think we lost you right at a critical like summary of Where you getting to and everyone is kind of waiting to hear um you wrap that up so I would love to divert back over so you can finish your thought there you but exactly I don’t know where you lost me it was I know so in this case I if I just gather everything back for evaluating the time in a efficient way for everyone and if I if you don’t lose me again I would be happy of course so the basically in terms of actually protecting the let’s say the brand voice in the content most of the time I put the facts and the opinions into the different segments of the content and it helps actually search engines to choose a different language model for a different text spun at the same time and it’s also easier for humans to read two rather than reading one fact one opinion and one fact and one opinion again you can see the first effects then the opinions and according to the context of the question or the query you can first give the opinions then the facts or first facts then the opinions as well the order of these components or order of the nature of these text spun it will also allow you to be connected with the query in a better way as well before you lose me I’m just shutting up I will say I’m excited to test this so I don’t know about everyone in the Any Suggestions audience but I’m definitely setting up some tests here um with some of our content that we’ve been optimizing so thank you for that explanation it was fabulous um anything else to add before we move on to the next question Velo well I think that we we have a a great representation in quite complex uh and white white views know and as I said I’m I’m flagging the I’m taking the flag of the smbs and in my case when I when I see the challenges the small Brands they have in in smbs I think that one of the the key elements or or the success they’re going to have is based on the the brand voice on the authenticity know so I think that in this case I I will encourage all of snbs to to be more than their own and and to bring more than their their voice and their offerings and what they really differentiate what they do in into into content rather than relying on I am I’m a b busy guy and I’m going to to rely on AI content creation or Outsourcing that to to other companies that are using this for scheduling or calendar no uh I can I can mention myself like uh when I when I post on LinkedIn I try to to have a very authentic even way to to to write what I write and you can see no not a not an AI is going to write that way or use the same you know like like as I said authentic voice so that will be my my suggestion for for the very small smbs wonderful I I’ve also kind of AI Tools pre-trained some of our chat Bots um with like our brand guidelines and documentation and everything that we’ve developed in housee and fed that in um so if you have that esta lished or not I would recommend that we do that um it can be helpful there as well um obviously we don’t publish AI generated content here but we definitely use it to assist in the creation and optimization so I think it’s it’s very helpful I think everyone’s running lean teams so we can scale where we can utilize resources the best possible um I am curious how would you recommend that businesses actually leverage AI tools speaking of um especially with regards to say competitive analysis or strategic planning for SEO any tips any recommendations any specific tools shall I start again sure we’ll keep the order thank you okay so in I am usually not associated with any tool and people usually know me for not mentioning the tools that much but since the question requires that I will mention a few of them I believe if you want to learn uh or if you want to read the Google Sur Google Sur or Google search results in a very much wider way you can definitely use infra nodus it is a tool that is created by X googlers it is also integrated with GPT basically you you can do lots of stuff there for YouTube SEO too but in in the context of the Google you can actually do just a simple search sech then it is actually getting all the results and creating a text graphic and then they are also giving different type of contextual zones for this text graphic and it is really helping you to actually analyze the nature of the Ser in terms of teeny tiny details you can’t open 100 results for every query but you can create a text graph from all of them and you can also create content while analyzing that section too and I also again in some of my speeches on the stage I I mentioned I have created over 50 GPT agents for my community and they have many different type of tasks for instance one of them just focused on simple things like named entity recognition the other one to complete that step it just helps you to actually the entities that you missed so you can actually see that what type of entities should be inserted the document in what way another one you just actually upload let’s say again I need to mention a tool but let’s say HFM Rush MOS Seno whatever you want you can upload Lo certain type of data then actually it creates a kinds of analysis to give you which one of these competitors is less costly to outrank to be able to actually be a kind of authority on the web first you should be able to outrank some of the other let’s say smaller slides completely and to be able to understand which one is the easiest you are able to actually do some certain analysis and if you chase side by side in a certain topic or industry it will be easier for you to move further rather than just competing with everyone at the same time and there are many other agents like syntax three generator or metad discourse auditor but these are a bit Advanced and to it might be complicated for a beginner but for simple things again you can check or do a simple backlink analysis or you can also upload your search console data and you can check which Google update hit the website negatively or affect it positively and you can compare the data with your competitors while creating a visualization as well so some of these things are already done by my team every day and our community also uses these things so I suggest you to check GPT store you can also be on boarded with them easily I will have to say I’m so glad Analytics we’re recording this because I’m gonna go back and take notes so now on the on the analytics side of things or how to measure the impact of your content uh in respect to the visitor analytics visitor Behavior Uh I would definitely restrain also to mention maybe any specific tools but and I’ll give a hint a quick hint at the end of my intervention here to ensure the user the usage of a privacy by Design tool which I mentioned also previously especially in the context of tracking and monitoring uh of the user data uh on one hand you you will be able to capture 100% make sure you capture 100% of the user data which increases dramatically the understanding of your client base this is completely clear now then instead of just copying competitors businesses should focus on using these deeper insights collected through those uh enhanced uh understandings to engage in a way in a more personalized and privacy conscious strategies that respects user data while still remaining competitive this balance is the balance is key in building trust and long-term loyalty with customers while expand expanding on strategies tailored uh to enhance client avatars and buying personas so I would definitely recommend here for our U viewers to aim to search for uh cookless website analytics or cookless analytics uh on all uh search consoles out there and to compare the data and start implementing this uh privacy by Design tracking of their content outputs wow again with my flag of smbs no so you know we we’ve been working for 12 years now with the vision of trying to democratize the Theo and you know most of the smbs very small smbs they say well some some professionals they say that’s not possible because obviously this is a very complex uh topic but for the for the and B we we’ve been trying with a vision of how we translate all of this complexity and ultimately the the AI know not the AI on sech but the AI on technology is allowing us to get closer to the vision so for this very small business that they they are not going to be sety enough to to stract the the value of these AI complex tools um what I aim is that what we for example are looking for is more moving more into a much easier um kind of advisor that is telling them okay this is what is relevant for you this is what your competition is doing this is what you should be asking for your go for your agency and and so on that plac in the SEO strategy take into account that SEO for small businesses is like a completely different animal than than much large scale so that’s that will be not an specific AI tool and I think we are looking for that kind of tool that is going to solve some of these um technical struggles to understand everything AI Overviews absolutely thank you for that um so what would you actually think um H how would we adopt some of our SEO strategies to account for um things like AI overviews or feature Snippets or voice search K you start yeah okay so for the AI overviews it’s actually like kinds of a new feature yet and most of the time it is correlated together with the features s pets and it is also a very similar feature too basically it’s a kind of augmented feature snippet with some guest context so in this case one more time Steven the baker is actually behind the brain Behind These two and he was also directly uh he was also writer of the actually announcement of the AI overviews as well and he was directly stating that getting the accuracy right is not that easy and that’s why I believe they are switching sometimes AI overviews with the across the web type of new Ser features and they also started to bring some different type of brand comparism Ser features too but in my opinion uh to be able to compete in the AI overviews the overall principles at least on the domain base it won’t be changing that much for instance when I search for the again best dep consolidation for a teacher the search Eng will be getting certain type of sources and before searching for the best answer from all these websites they will actually search they will actually look for the overall authority of these sources first and there will be a question from the search engine point of view if the all the auor sources don’t have the right answer proper or the relevant answer should I still show the AI overview by citing a low Authority or low page rank website it and still I don’t think that actually these low page rank websites are getting that much attraction from there and you can check your log files you will see Google other agent there and I have some websites that have over 40% of Craw hits from the Google other if you check also the Google uh Google user agents page from the developers google.com you will see that they have brought some new user agents like Google other Google other Image Google other video so they explicitly say that Google other is actually for research and development so if you are being heavily cwed by Google other user agent it means that they’re also testing your website but usually what I see is less than 1% hit or over 40% hit so it means they are actually prioritizing some websites to test in these sections and when it comes to the optimization there I have a concept called historical data probably you won’t be able to get that much click from this new Ser feature but it doesn’t mean that it is actually something negative even if you are placed directly in these answers or if the search engine is using your source to generate these answers still it will be helping you to gain more Authority and more usefulness for the search engine which will be helping you to rank for also commercial queries as well for news Publishers or the display ads websites it might be of course slightly negative as well we need to accept it but for e-commerce or SAS businesses or for many of them it won’t be that much negative one more thing is as I said in my first answer I believe since the average query length will be too long and since the combination of these queries also will be too much small websites by covering way much more context like de consolidation for 3,000 different occupations or let’s say 6,000 different Liquors or cocktails from every geography and Country if you’re able to process all these inform information with a proper representation you can also outrank way much more web slides and appear in the AI overviews even if you don’t have that much page rank or the links because most of the web is not prepared for this type of search needs yet thank you I’m definitely running to check my server log so thank you for that um I want to actually say we got about 9 minutes left so I have a couple questions we really have to get to um specifically I think we really wanted to address um to everyone what type of skills should they be investing in especially for SEO Professionals in order to focus um to remain really relevant in this AI argumented industry that we’re in now dragos any thoughts there if you want to start W is slow maybe you have guys more I’ll take care of no well I think that as I said we don’t we don’t work so much with SEO professionals but if I have to look into SEO professionals what I think is they have to stay um to up toate into into the really uh dynamics of AI into the different development of the the the Sears and and the different players that appearing in the in the space and also I think that uh what we see or what I think I see their their main their main change is from from being an operator of a tool or having a a basic or specific knowledge about SEO and implementation and moving more into the creativity into the understanding empathy and and those kind of fields I don’t know I don’t know how you can do that but I think that is a it’s a focus of being less Technical and trying to to be more on the Strategic side overall and and also to to build sort of on on what he mentioned is that I would say that first and foremost I would focus on user experience for for instance because AI increasingly considers user user behavior in ranking decisions and professionals should focus on improving site usability personalization responsiveness to align with both AI driven search and human uh preferences and for example just look at how long users engage with your content on your platform repeat VIs it without intrusive tracking overall satisfaction can indicate success in a privacy conscious world uh 360 overviews related to behavior can also increase massively the success of the strategies so combining for instance marketing funnels with session recordings can uncover in incredibly interesting things so within this Paradigm you could watch the exact journey of your dropouts and identify potential blockages to the final conversion point for instance also the capacity to uh analyze groups of pages with similar URL patterns for instance like product pages with various variants on the with the help of hit Maps or session recordings bring everything Under One Roof for a real 360 overview of your visitors so I definitely encourage encourage to look and uh utilize complete platforms to marry the data together wonderful thank you okay I guess I am the last one but I can give maybe a few simple points uh directly please try to understand the natural language processing you don’t need to know coding to understand it today you have GPT agents which is like a brain extension if you don’t know something AI knows it just try to use it like a part of your brain and second thing is I will definitely work on The Branding because whatever the search engine algorithms are focusing on or however they are being configured they will always be favoring actually Brands and as long as you have a real function or a reason to exist that the specific website you will also be safe that’s why the e-commerce or the S businesses they are not affected that much they are actually creating a reason to be searched with their own brand name they are creating actually a community around themselves as well but when it comes to the display s websites or direct FAS like a middleman I usually call them like w websites so they don’t have that much a function and Google tries to reshape the web according to that so focusing on branding and NLP together and also understanding a little bit where Google is going and what type of obstacles they will be having in the future will be actually a great vision improving let’s say contribution for your future fantastic um I want one more question to kind of wrap up here and QA then I think with Q&A we’ve had such a fantastic conversation I’m not sure we’re going to get to attendee questions but I would highly recommend I think the same chat lives during the next session so speakers if we could respond to some of the questions that was directed directly to you that would be amazing if not I highly recommend tweeting at our speakers as well or exing what do we even say these days okay uh yeah I’ll never get that um but yes please interact with our speakers follow them on social um last question um I want to look ahead um how would you envision interaction between Ai and human expertise shaping the future of SEO um any advice that you would give to professionals or or snbs or businesses to stay ahead in this changing landscape Maybe yeah let’s go so to be able to harmonize the let’s say the AI with the human expertise there is for instance another tool and am not asso for in consensus that app you make a search it gives you all the researches and also it gives you the most relevant section of the research to integrate in your article which you can use directly by citing them with different type of formats and again you can try to actually let’s say balance your angle in some scientific articles let’s say you are creating a Content Network or website segment just for pregnancy and you can ask AI directly what type let’s say for every week what type of hormones change in what direction for what percentage and what are all the researches that actually verify this so human experts we don’t have photographic memory and even if you study on pregnancy for 40 years you won’t be able to tell it for your brain but you can always go to an AI and gather this information in the format and representation form that actually you would like to have so it will be one of the let’s say goal point Thank you awesome really short snippet for from from myself so in short in a nutshell prioritize high quality content creation because while AI can help optimize contents okay all all of us we know this human creativity and expertise will will still be critical for crafting content that resonates with the end user on the emotional and the contextual level uh content that answer answers deeper and more complex question more personalized con uh questions um will continue to perform well after you have understood 100% of the visor data uh this is basically the Lee way to tailor the content so the Silver Lining here learn how to integrate data maximiz data maximizing privacy conscious Strate strategies into SEO planning uh this would be my my best advice I going to make a one short just focus on what AI cannot provide uh what I embrace Ai and learn about AI but focus on what AI cannot provide and I will encourage pretty much on smbs has been my my struggle through the these years snbs are really busy doing their business no managing their business but I think that those ones that are like raising the boys having authentic boys and and take care about the user experience of the ones that are going to be winning I absolutely could not agree more we are absolutely perfect timing I want to make sure to give props to our next session that’s coming up um we have a live site audit session with the brilliant Carolyn Shelby if y’all are familiar with her she’s with yast um I’m very excited for that want to say thank you all for joining us today thank you to our panelists wonderful discussion I am very excited to rewatch and and take away some some notes and honestly go back and revisit some of our strategies so thank you so much for your contributions we absolutely appreciate it thank you shy thank you thank you thank you it was a pleasure byebye